ZIONISTS OR JESUITS?
I have often been fiercely debated about the two schools of thought over geo-political controllers. In fact, every post of mine in the Black Nobility 101 collection carries comments contending my arguments and stressing that the Jewish Zionists are the top of the pyramid of power via their banking families.
This debate (uploaded to Rumble) between Michael Collins Piper and Eric Jon Phelpsreflects my experience in similar debates more recently and it conveys the various and numerous points for you to consider their plausibility. You will notice that, in the links I have provided, Mr Piper has a respectful wiki page but Mr Phelps is savaged in a Rational Wiki hate fest that makes your eyes water.
I remember listening, in 2006, to Greg Szymanski's radio show originally archived here:
https://archive.org/details/michaelcollinspipervsericjonphelpsthegreatdebatezionistsorjesuits
Obviously the debate widened into the global community and continues to rage on into the present time, 18 years later.
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One commentator, in a blog post on Wordpress under the name of Eternal Propositions, provided a loose but useful summary of the debate in 2012 and I quote it (with minor editing) in full below:
These are not quotations but paraphrases or summaries of what they said and sometimes includes opinions after considering their views. The opinions and notes are marked [DS].
MCP-It is a primary contention of Mr. Piper that John F Kennedy resisted the Jews and Zionists which led to his assassination and laid the groundwork for Zionist power in this country.
EJP– It is the primary contention of Mr. Phelps that the Jesuits were created to destroy Protestantism and the Saracens in an attempt to regain power for the Holy Roman Empire. From the suppression of the Jesuits in 1773 (Dominus ac Redemptor Noster) they have been the driving force behind all secret societies and control them at the top levels of infamous human authority.
During the cold war- they created the Jewish-Zionist state of Israel - the Jews were so obedient to the Jesuits that Jews are now allowed into Jesuit order - The Jewish intelligence agency Mossad works for the Jesuits and Mossad was involved in the Kennedy assassination - The Mossad and CIA work together - The CIA is the head and Mossad is the tail.
MCP– The Zionist lobby is powerful because of money - The Roman Catholic Church is against abortion yet abortions are freely available, therefore the RCC does not control America [It is disputed among Sedevecantists that the mainstream RCC is not really the RCC. Secondly, secularism was the Jesuit answer to Protestant Reformation: https://eternalpropositions.wordpress.com/2011/12/30/the-secularization-of-protestant-nations-the-jesuit-agenda-to-destroy-the-reformation-in-ed-drake/-DS]
Loftus was a Zionist and EJP relies heavily on him – if Jesuits set up Israel why wouldn’t they want JFK to give arms to Israel? Why did the Mossad kill him if he was pro-Israel?
EJP– Phelps admits that Piper is right at this point and needs to amend his book.
Phelps asserts that the CIA was the continuation of the SS in Nazi Germany. Cardinal Spellman and J Edgar Hoover brought in the SS.
Phelps argues that Piper is ignoring the fact that Shimon Peres deeded the land around Jerusalem and many Holy Sites over to the Vatican. [See Barry Chamish’s work hereand here-DS]
MCP– Around the 4 minute mark Piper admits he doesn’t know the history behind Phelps’s accusations about the Jesuits and the Vatican. Yet in the debate he claims he read Eric’s entire book! How contradictory is that? Piper claims that as of Vatican 2, Zionists had a part in shifting the Catholic Church away from their more strict fundamental beliefs. So the Zionists infiltrated Rome not the other way around.Piper claims that the CIA came from Office of Strategic Services, not the Jesuits.
EJP– And office of strategic services was headed by Wild Bill Donovan. [He was a Knight of Malta and in July 1944, Pope Pius XII, awarded Donovan the Knight Grand Cross of the Order of St. Sylvester for his services. - DS] - Phelps also mentions that James Angleton was also involved in the Kennedy Assassination.
MCP– In 1948 James Angleton became liaison to Israel thus the CIA is pro Israel. Donovan faded from the scene by 1963- Donovan Knight of Malta connection means nothing. If he was a member of the Rotary Club that doesn’t mean the Rotary Club was behind the Kennedy assassination!
Mafia is not Jesuit but Jewish Zionist, thus Hyman Larner and Myer Lansky.
EJP– The CFR controls the press, academia, and banking and CFR is controlled by archbishop of New York. http://www.vaticanassassins.org/romes-new-york-council-on-foreign-relations-membership-roster-of-traitors-2010/
MCP– The Vatican opposed the war in Iraq, the Zionists supported it.
EJP– That is because the Hierarchy has a fake open policy and a real secret policy.
[2nd we are not talking about the average catholic. We are talking about the hierarchy and the secret cults within Rome’s belly - DS]
In Bavaria Jesuits like Rupert Mayer were openly against the rise of Hitler. But secretly they were for him in the formation of the SS and the creation of the Independent State of Croatia.
Phelps also pointed out that George Tenet [Previous director of the CIA] is a Knight of Malta, was behind 9/11 and the crusade against Muslims
MCP– During the 7th minute of the 7th segment, Piper says he read through the entirety of Phelps’ Vatican Assassins. Yet other parts of this debate lead one to think otherwise.
In the 8th segment, a commenter n0b0dy508, made a fantastic observation:
“Just reinforces reasons why Piper is a Jesuit coadjutor, and Eric Phelps is simply telling it like it is and even admits to Zionist elements involved in certain aspects of history. Piper denies the Jesuit involvement in anything and keeps repeating himself, a key sign that he has ran out of options in the debate. Notice he keeps going back to “…well in his book when he talks about the JFK assassination…” when Phelps already admitted his mistake!”
EJP– Phelps emphasizes that the Pope believes he has TEMPORAL POWER THROUGH PAPAL PRIMACY. He believes he has right to any government through any means necessary including 3rd party Zionism.
MCP– All religions want to rule the world! Not just the Vatican. [That is fundamentally not true. I know of no history of any Buddhist, Hindu or Protestant Christian that believed he had right to every government in the world. - DS]
Piper says, that there is “no evidence for Jesuit involvement”. This is clear evidence of Papal coadjutation. At segment 9 at the 30 second mark Piper says that Phelps’ theory hinges on his view of the Kennedy assassination and his mistake by missing the war between Kennedy and the Jews. Piper never showed how this mistake destroys Phelps’ theory or how his view of the Kennedy assassination necessarily removes the Jesuits from world power.
MCP– Piper makes the point that Malachi Martin is a Zionist and is not a reliable source.
EJP– Jesuits are the ultimate Zionists! [See: https://eternalpropositions.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/could-the-war-in-the-middle-east-be-inspired-by-the-roman-catholic-agenda-to-fulfill-ignatius-loyolas-vision/-DS]
Cardinal Augustin Bea (Jesuit) was a driving force behind Vatican 2 and the Anti-Defamation League named its Interfaith Award after Bea. Bea was the confessor of Pope Pius XII.
MCP– All that proves is that a Jesuit allowed himself to be used by the Zionists.
EJP– Who was here first the Jesuits or the Zionists? There is no Zionist that predates the Jesuit order.
MCP– At 4:40 he shows he seems to know quite a bit about the Catholic Church. – He knows the difference between traditionalist and V2 Catholics. He says traditionalist Catholicism is against Zionism but Zionist influence is in V2. HE IS A COADJUTATOR. THAT IS WHERE THE KKK GETS THIS STUFF!
EJP– JESUITS HAVE BEEN RUNNING THE RCC HIERARCHY NO LATER THAN 1814 - By the way, there were no Zionists in 1814.
MCP-Zionist philosophy goes back 1000 years!
EJP– That’s different! Contemporary Zionism is Luciferianism based on high level freemasonry which the Jesuits revived in 1717. They created Zionism to take over Jerusalem (Thus Shimon Peres) and rebuild the third temple.
As a side note, in segment 9 at the 6:00 min mark, a traditionalist Catholic caller had the same view as Michael Collins Piper on the Zionists!
EJP– V2 was the Jesuit attempt to wash the Vatican’s bloody hands from their involvement in the massacre of the Orthodox Christians in Russia, the Jews in the German Holocaust and the Catholic people in Bavaria who refused the 1870 papal infallibility doctrine.
MCP– Who was responsible for the murder of the Catholic priests and nuns in republican Spain? The communists!
EJP– The republicans in Spain expelled the Jesuits in 1932 and the Jesuits got their revenge on other Catholics for challenging their authority just like in France, Italy, Spain and Portugal during Napoleonic wars.
In conclusion, I would like to point out that the only weak spots in Phelps’ arguments can be satisfied in the Traditional Protestant Historicism and Post-Millennialism of the Reformers instead of Phelps’ Futurist Premillennialism. His Baptistic leanings also cater to Zionist tendencies. The Covenant Theology of the Reformers spiritualizes the literal land promise (Acts 15) and denies the Jews the right to Palestine as God divorced Israel from that covenant promise; see here: http://olivianus.thekingsparlor.com/systematic-theology/tables-of-human-hearts-concerning-the-law-and-the-sabbath-by-drake-shelton
Section I.xvii. That is not to say that God is finished with the Jewish people. Romans 11 clearly affirms the future faith of the Jewish people unto Christ. But that in itself is no right to the literal land of Palestine.
Protestant Historicism is against Rome primarily and would fully agree with Phelps’ accusations of the Papacy and the Jesuits but also affirm the problems with Zionism. For more info see Francis Nigel Lee’s page: http://www.dr-fnlee.org/
As my readers know, I prefer Eric Jon Phelps’ opinion because the Jesuits were originally established, financed and presented to the Pope by the Black Nobility family Farnese of Rome who were strong supporters of the Papacy.
There are a few other considerations that I would like to add here.
When the Roman Catholic Church mounted the Crusades and sent Knights into the Middle East to protect pilgrims travelling to Jerusalem, the Pope had his greedy eyes set on possessing that city which was under Muslim control.
Zionism became the name for that idea.
In the late 19th century, Theodor Herzl was trained and brainwashed by Jesuits who persuaded European Jews that returning to Palestine would be their safest future and the Zionist Federation grew from there.
Separating genuine God-fearing Judeans from the Ashkenazi and the Khazarians was an impossible task and really only depended on which book they preferred to obey.
Genuine Jews follow the Torah (the first 5 books of the Bible) and as believers in God’s word would not return to the Levant until their Messiah calls them.
But Zionists prefer the Babylonian Talmud. The Zionists grew in power and, with the Rothschilds at their helm, they pressurised the British government to grant them a home in Palestine and the Balfour Declaration was signed promising just that in 1917.
However there was an important proviso hidden within it which became forgotten over the years:
At the end of WW2, the Zionists used their story of the Holocaust to increase their lobbying and finally, in 1948, the British Mandate in Palestine, under the wing of the newly formed United Nations withdrew in favour of the Zionists.
The Zionists immediately initiated the appalling Nakba which refers to the violent displacement and dispossession of the Palestinian people, along with the destruction of their society, culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations which continues relentlessly until today.
All my life I have read horrifying stories about refugees with keys to houses in villages that no longer exist. I have seen more than 70 years of atrocities filtering down through the grapevine via a few brave journalists and activists who dared to tell the truth and often paid for that truth with their lives.
ALSO -
People often blame Jews or Zionists for ‘inventing’ and disseminating communism. That is not true.
Here, I quote from a previous article of mine, WHO RULES THE WORLD?:
Anyone who has done any depth of research knows that the origins of political correctness is communism, but few seem to have realised that communism is not a Rothschild or Rockefeller invention.
It was first developed by Jesuits working in Paraguay.
They called their first experiments the "reductions" and they reported their findings back to the Vatican along with considerable funds raised by enslaving the people of Paraguay.
They discovered that they could deny the population the use of Spanish, thus isolating them from neighbouring countries which were developing under slightly different regimes.
The reductions were successful and the blueprint for population control was passed onto willing Jewish dissidents from Russia such as Marx and his student, Lenin.
The real source of the devastating communist interventions in Russia and China were carried to those two countries by Jesuit trained change agents.
The Jesuits make an art form out of ensuring that Jewish people get the blame for their worst atrocities.
It is wise to bear this in mind whenever we see videos or articles written to attack or cast suspicion on the Jews.
This has been going on since the Crusades - The Roman Catholic Church Popes were, in fact, the first Zionists, if you understand that Zion is an alternative name for Jerusalem.
Their objectives are borne out by the Unam Sanctum Papal Bull of 1302 which claims all souls on earth for the Roman Catholic Church operating on earth on behalf of God (according to them).
Given that no Papal Bull ever expires, you can get a glimpse of the long term plan that the Jesuits have worked towards ever since they first became the military arm of the clergy.
Their hatred for Jews stems from the conviction that the Jewish race is responsible for the death of Jesus and therefore herding Jews into Israel is a dreadful plan which leaves the Jews wide open to falling prey to the diabolical plan outlined in Revelations.
I have written at great length on my doubts about the provenance of that supposedly biblical book. I think it is a blueprint for hell on earth, so that the Roman Catholic Church (a thin disguise for the old Roman Empire) can achieve its end game of full totalitarian authoritarianism on a global scale.
ONWARDS!
xx
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