Exclusive: As Trump Threatens to Deport Him, Momodou Taal Says Itâs âTime to Escalate for Palestineâ
âAnything that shows solidarity of Palestine is being mischaracterized quite erroneously as antisemitism. Thatâs the way in which they are trying to get us to stop speaking about Palestine,â says Momodou Taal, a Cornell University graduate student and activist now facing deportation after challenging the Trump administration in court.
The risks of political speech have escalated dramatically for international students like Taal. He spoke to The Intercept Briefing yesterday, underscoring the chilling reality he and his peers now face. âItâs not just that you might get kicked out of school or suspended,â says Taal, âbut you are threatened with deportation and ICE custody now. Thatâs whatâs at stake here.â
Late last week, federal officials sent Taalâs attorney a midnight email demanding he appear before Immigration and Customs Enforcement on Tuesday. The email provided no grounds for the request. This typically marks the beginnings of removal proceedings against an individual in the U.S.
Only afterward, over the weekend, did the Department of Justice claim Taalâs student visa had been revoked on March 14 by the State Department due to âdisruptive protestsâ and âcreating a hostile environment for Jewish students.â
The timing is telling â just days after Taal, a dual Gambian and British citizen, joined other Cornell plaintiffs in a lawsuit accusing the Trump administration of targeting international students for supporting Palestinian rights. In their complaint, the plaintiffs state, âThe First Amendment protects people and not citizens alone. This includes non-citizens living in the U.S.â
Taal had participated in pro-Palestine protests at Cornell. His legal team argues the order to appear before ICE demonstrates their central claim that deportation is being weaponized âin retributionâ for lawful political speech.
âWhen you have to quell speech, it means that you are realizing that the outside world or public opinion is swaying in one direction.â
Despite the pressure, Taal sees the governmentâs actions as evidence of weakness, not strength. âYou donât repress to this level when youâre in a position of strength. When you have to quell speech, it means that you are realizing that the outside world or public opinion is swaying in one direction. So I think now would not be the time to be afraid. I know itâs a very frightening moment, but for me, this is the time to double down.â
As Tuesday approaches, Taal remains resolute about the potential consequences. âIf I have to leave the country, it would be back to the U.K. I know the weatherâs terrible and your listeners probably donât like beans and toast either, but it wouldnât be the worst thing in the world going back to the U.K. I think about what the Palestinians have endured for 76 years and more â what Iâm going through pales in comparison.â
Listen to the full conversation of The Intercept Briefing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
TRANSCRIPT
Jessica Washington: Welcome to The Intercept Briefing. Iâm Jessica Washington. Momodou Taal, a PhD student at Cornell Universityâs Africana Studies and Research Center, has been ordered by federal officials to surrender to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) tomorrow. This comes just days after he and two others filed a suit against the Trump administration for their use of deportation as a tool to silence criticism of Israelâs war on Gaza and U.S. complicity.
His attorney, Eric Lee, calls the demand to report to ICE, âextremely unusualâ and âvery concerning.â Over the weekend, the Justice Department claimed the State Department revoked Taalâs visa because of his involvement in âdisruptive protestsâ and âcreating a hostile environment for Jewish students.â
Taal joins me now. Thank you for taking the time to speak with us.
Momodou Taal: Thank you so much for having me on.
JW: And just before we get started, I just want to ask, how are you doing?
MT: Itâs up and down. Itâs up and down. Some days are more difficult than others.
But what I would say, itâs such a fast, evolving situation that if you ask me how I am today, I can give you an answer and then in an hourâs time it could be different.
JW: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And after filing the lawsuit, you reported that law enforcement from an unidentified agency had showed up at your home and that eyewitnesses had viewed additional law enforcement cars near various points around your home. Can you tell us a little about that?
MT: Absolutely. So, I filed on about Saturday and I think we can talk about the filing as well âcause we know we now have the governmentâs response. But I filed on Saturday.
I mean, Iâll talk about why I filed as well, which Iâm sure youâre going to cover. But essentially after filing Iâve been, Iâve mean today, I believe there were law enforcement agencies at my house, which is a clear intimidation. Following that, then, we filed another temporary restraining order. After that, I was told that I must, I think we received an email at like 1:12 AM, stating that I must surrender myself into ICE. And then after that, I think on Friday night, I received, around 7:30, 7:45, I received an email saying my visa has been revoked. So, for me, that clearly indicates retaliation and retribution for filing.
And yeah, I mean, so itâs very, itâs extremely unusual to quote my lawyer, right? Because again, in what world, right, do you sue the government for protection, for the very exact thing that theyâre now coming for you afterwards, after the fact? Right. And itâs interesting that the lawyers, the brief, again, we can go into it because itâs public, but the brief essentially says that for my activity in a protest in September, that all of a sudden on Friday, a day before we file, that they were planning to deport me.
Thatâs the governmentâs reasoning, and thatâs the governmentâs response, right? Which again, itâs very interesting to me that on a random Friday for an event that took place six months ago, all the federal agencies were planning to come after me, and now that Iâve filed, my visa has been revoked.
So, for me, it clearly looks like retaliation and retribution profiling.
JW: Has that been an intimidating experience? I mean, having law enforcement outside of your home and, and come to your home as well?
MT: Absolutely. I mean, it it kind of, I donât want to say itâs unprecedented because itâs not, right? Iâm very aware of this countryâs crackdown on people who try to hold the government accountable, right? I think itâs extremely concerning, intimidating, worrying, scary. But I think what, and itâs also surreal, but I think why itâs perhaps the most kind of strange for me is that this is all done in service of genocide, right? This is all done in service of those who are speaking out against a genocide.
And I think whatâs deeply concerning to me about whatâs happening, you know, making the narrative of Jewish students feel unsafe. How am I⊠Itâs almost like who has the monopoly of safety here? Right? Because Iâm sure an argument can be made: Law enforcement coming to my house makes me feel unsafe. The threat of deportation makes me feel unsafe. The demand to surrender to ICE makes me feel unsafe. Right? But again, that would never be a cause for having the state apparatus clamp down on people. Right?
And the event in question that took place in September that resulted in my suspension, you have to read the brief. Itâs almost like unbelievable in many ways because you are saying that I led loud chants that were intimidating. Wherein we know the fact that Cornell has, on record, said that Momodou was not violent. I havenât been arrested, I havenât been convicted of a crime or alleged of any crime. Why Iâm in⊠What the allegations say or violations state is that I was involved in a protest that might have been disruptive, and this is where we are in this country, right?
You can be involved in a protest that people donât like and you can be deported and threatened to go to ICE custody.
JW: Yeah, no, I mean, I really want to ask you more about the lawsuit. Can you tell me, I mean, what exactly are you all arguing, and who are the plaintiffs here in this case?
MT: Thank you. Yeah, so we have myself as a plaintiff, and then we have one of my professors, MĆ©koma [Wa NgĆ©gÄ©], heâs a co-plaintiff. Heâs a full professor at Cornell in the Literatures in English department, and we have another co-plaintiff, Sriram [Parasurama]. Shriram and MĆ©koma are both American-born citizens, and the argument weâre making is that the First Amendment is not just the ability to speak and have your speech protected and you cannot face retribution or attack or consequence for your speech.
But also, the First Amendment also in the Supreme Court ruling and the Fifth Amendment as well, is that American citizens have the right to hear speech. And the argument is that the executive orders prohibit Americans being able to hear speech thatâs critical of the government or critical of the state of Israel, for example.
So thatâs the kind of the lawsuit that weâre arguing.
JW: Yeah. And how did you come to be a part of this lawsuit?
MT: Yeah, itâs funny. Itâs not like, itâs definitely not my own choosing in many ways. I mean, Iâm definitely happy to be a part of it and I think itâs the right thing to do because weâre not just seeking a kind of a protection against myself, but we are seeking a national injunction.
The national injunction being that it protects all international students and similarly situated persons, right? Because we know on the campaign trail, Trump said if you attended a âpro-Jihadi,â and Iâve got scare quotes using my fingers right now, for people who canât see here, for people who are listening. But you know, it says that if you attended a âpro-Jihadiâ â you know, mischaracterization of these protests â then you could be deported. So, we kind of knew something was going to come, given the high profile nature of my case in September, I believed that I was going to be a target. And I felt the best way for me to protect myself would be going this route of suing the government and challenging the legality and the constitutionality of the executive orders.
JW: And I want to ask a little bit more about you. I think your case is so high profile. Many people in this country now know your name. But, you know, can you tell us more about yourself, more about why you came to the United States to study?
MT: Absolutely. So, yeah, I mean, born in Gambia, and this is to correct the record, thereâs outlets, the racist American media says Ghana, but itâs not Ghana, itâs Gambia.
I know itâs very similar, but theyâre two different countries. So, I was born in the Gambia. I moved to the U.K. when I was three months old. [I spent] my whole life in the U.K. Iâm a Brit, Iâm a British citizen. And then I moved to Egypt to study etiology. And then I moved to America in 2022 to pursue a PhD in Africana Studies, which looks at Africa and its diaspora. And my work focuses on political economy and decolonization.
And why I came here, because I mean, I think there arenât many reputable Black studies programs in the West. America has great programs here. Cornell is obviously a great school for that. I mean, thereâs a debate between Cornell and schools in the West Coast, but Cornell being one of the first Africana studies departments, which exclusively focuses on Africa and its diaspora.
JW: Thatâs really cool. I didnât know that. And I want to continue to ask about just how youâre doing andâŠ
MT: Mm-hmm.
JW: How do you, how does anyone cope with this uncertainty? I mean, what are you doing in your day-to-day life to just kind of deal with not knowing what happens next?
MT: Itâs just, itâs so strange because itâs so much⊠I think Iâve had the fortunate experience to be able to compartmentalize a lot of things. But I do think it⊠I think a lot of it will hit me later on when I do begin to process how big this is. But itâs so go, go, go in the moment. I mean, every hour is like, OK, I need an affidavit. Oh, can you send me this piece of documentation? Can you do this interview? Right?
So, I kind of donât really have a lot of time to kind of process. But I donât, you know, up and down with how Iâm feeling. Sometimes Iâm OK. Iâm a bit sad sometimes, worried. Other times, Iâm like, âOK, letâs get this.â I have to remind myself why Iâm doing this. But I think fundamentally, you know, I think the horrific images that weâve seen emerge from Gaza in the last 17 months have desensitized me in many ways and numbed me in many ways that when I see the online vitriol and hatred, it doesnât really even phase me anymore because I feel like Iâm at such a point. I feel so numb to a lot of things, but also, I would include that when I do see those images, that Iâm reminded why Iâm doing what Iâm doing, right?
That this government is complicit in whatâs happening in in Gaza. This government has given the green light for Israelâs bombardment and destruction, decimation of Gaza, that Iâm reminded that if we lose our ability to speak out against the death of more than 18,000 kids, then I donât, I donât thinkâŠ
My conscience wonât allow me to be silent. Right?
JW: And I want to draw us back to last year and the action taken against you by Cornell University. So, Cornell University took disciplinary action against you and several other students for protesting the universityâs financial ties to industries complicit in Israelâs attacks on civilians in Gaza.
And can you walk us through what happened with this disciplinary action, how the university responded, and maybe a little bit about these protests?
MT: Yeah, I mean, ever since October of 2023, weâve had a sustained campaign on campus calling for divestment [from Israel]. And we know with the crescendo of the encampments in April, I was also involved in the encampment.
I didnât stay at the encampment because I was also a negotiator, but we saw there was a pattern from several Ivy Leagues who were in coordination with each other, in which they would suspend negotiators, right? And now my threat of deportation happened, then they were going to de-enroll me, et cetera.
But then Cornell backed down kind of, and then we kind of came into some agreement, right? And throughout the whole thing, Iâve never been accused of any violence, which is important to state, and nor have I been convicted of a crime or arrested. And then September, we took part in an action. The action was a recruitment fair.
The recruitment fair was at the Statler Hotel on Cornellâs campus. Present at the recruitment fair were two of our targets for divestment, L3Harris and Boeing.
I was in the hotel for about five minutes, right? And then I left. After leaving the hotel, I had been spotted by the chief of police who had recognized me from previous protests. And then I think Cornell wanted to make an example out of me. And then on the 23 of September, I was called into a meeting and I was told that Iâll be de-enrolled within the next 24 to 48 hours, and I have to leave the country promptly.
What I can say is that, undoubtedly, Cornell now has placed a target on my back, right? Because they didnât have to come down so heavy on me. Because they perhaps deemed me as someone whoâs front facing. And erroneously declared me as someone, as perhaps the leader, which, you know, if anyone knows movement building, is that the movement is never dependent on one person because that would kill the movement, the removal of that person. But what we can see is that, Cornell, you know, weaponized the disciplinary process to place a target on my back and now weâve seen how dangerous it is because now this is what the government is using and citing as reasons for my deportation.
JW: With Cornell, are you currently still suspended or whatâs the status with that?
MT: No. So, I signed an alternative resolution, which basically wouldâve seen me come back to campus and my ban on campus remained.
I was allowed to attend Friday prayer, attend, use the Cornell health facilities, and also attend my Department of Africana to study. And that was going to be lifted. And my return to campus was expected in the fall of 2025.
JW: After the break, more from Momodou Taal, a PhD student at Cornell and one of the plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the Trump administration. Taal is facing threats of deportation.
[BREAK]
JW: You already touched on this a little bit, but I want to get more of your thoughts on how universities like Cornell and other similar schools, as you mentioned, similar Ivy League schools, have responded to pro-Palestine protests and in particular how theyâve treated international students like yourself.
MT: Yeah, absolutely. I think, I truly think this is going to be a stain on so many of these universities, and I think it really, you really get the sense of kind of how liberals weaponize history because we are told ad nauseum that Cornell and other universities celebrate protest action on campus, right?
You walk past Cornell and perhaps maybe every five, 10 minutes across campus, youâll be met with a monument that memorializes a protest, right? Iâm in the Department of Africana. For those who know, the Willis Straight Takeover Hall was literally Black students, took over a hall for 36 hours with arms demanding the establishment of my department.
Or youâll hear sometimes in which, you know, the Latin students protested, for example, or the Vietnam protests or anti-apartheid protests and Cornell will proudly celebrate this legacy. But when students do the exact same thing in the moment, they are met with, I canât lie to you, I did not actually anticipate this level of repression.
And I think a lot of our students across the country, we maybe have thought thereâll be some consequences, right? But this level of oppression seems to indicate something bigger than. It seems to indicate not just coming down on protestors who may be disruptive at Cornellâs campus or other campuses, but rather itâs almost an ideological commitment here.
I think thereâs an ideological commitment. I think Cornell isnât just clamping down and protesting, but rather, they disagree with the protesters and thatâs why we are facing the level of oppression that we are.
JW: I want to get back to the lawsuit. You, along with another grad student and a professor, are suing the Trump administration for violating the First Amendment with a handful of executive orders aimed at suppressing speech. Can you run us through what specific executive orders are at the heart of this case and what are the broader implications if theyâre upheld?
MT: They come under the banner of combating antisemitism on campuses. And the specific executive order is making people deportable for basically being accused of antisemitism. And the second one is that it obliges universities to coordinate and comply and report students to the Department of Homeland Security for deportation. Right?
So essentially what weâre saying is that the kind of impact and effect of this is very clear, right? If you are on a campus calling forâ again, it says antisemitism, but really weâve seen the ways in which this discourse is to suppress and chill any speech that talks about pro-Palestine, anything thatâs to do with pro-Palestine, anything that calls for liberation of Palestine, anything that shows solidarity of Palestine is being mischaracterized, quite erroneously as antisemitism. Right? So thatâs the way in which they are trying to get us to stop speaking about Palestine.
And not just that you could stop speaking about them, that you might get kicked out of school or you might be suspended, but you are threatened with deportation and ICE custody now. Thatâs whatâs at stake here.
JW: Recently, immigration agents without warning or showing a warrant, arrested former Columbia University student Mahmoud Khalil, a permanent U.S. legal resident married to an American citizen. Khalil was put in an unmarked car and effectively disappeared for more than 24 hours. As of Friday, he has been detained at a facility in Louisiana. The Trump administration is attempting to revoke his green card for his role as a mediator in pro-Palestine protests on Columbia Universityâs campus last year.
Given your fears of retaliation and now seeing how quickly theyâve escalated against you, why are you speaking out, including speaking to us right now?
MT: I think, thank you so much for the question. I think I donât have a choice, and I think the visibility and amplifying the story is important, right? I think oftentimes people might hear a headline and maybe not speak, maybe not hear of the person behind the headline. And I think it was a right move to do, given that Mahmoud Khalil was targeted and now weâve seen faculty at Georgetown, for example, and a few other names are now coming up. What weâre seeing is that no one is safe, particularly those who are in precarious positions such as international students, and again, not even international students, those who are legally here with a green card and married to U.S. citizens are not safe.
Not for, again â I think we have to emphasize â not for committing a crime or even an allegation of a crime or for being a mediator, right? Or for being involved in a protest. So, I think these are the stakes and this is why I have to continue to speak. And I think, you know, fundamentally, itâs a case about free speech. I think the worst thing to do would be to be quiet now.
JW: And what do you think is going to happen on Tuesday?
MT: Itâs hard to say. I mean, I donât know. I donât know. I hope I get my day in court. I hope a judge is able to hear me and hear us out. I believe that, you know, a part of what a democracy is and should be, is that thereâs separation of powers. And weâve seen this, the governmentâs flagrant disregard for the law, for the judiciary, for separation of powers. And I think we have to try and uphold this. Right? And again, as someone whoâs from the U.K. and just moving to the United States, we donât have a First Amendment in the U.K., you know? Right? We donât have this level of protection.
I do know for so long I remember hearing on social media and different news platforms, for so long, it was the right who would say these, these radical left, or these snowflakes or these people who want to suppress speech. These people who donât let us think, we canât say anything anymore without someone being canceled.
I donât know, you know, whatâs worse, right? You not being able to attend a university because youâve made fascist and racist remarks. And even though I donât even hold that view, Iâm like, OK, fine. Like I donât have to be subjected to that speech. I can always leave the room. But what we noticed that free speech was then being instrumentalized to say fascist and racist things, and transphobic things. What is a greater form of cancellation? Not being able to say that at a few campuses or being detained by ICE with no access to your family or the outside world or being deported? I think materially, this is a greater cancellation.
JW: Yeah. And again, I keep going back to the personal, but how are you living with this disruption with not knowing what might happen on Tuesday?
MT: Again, itâs tough. Iâll just take it day by day. Really. Look, I guess Iâm looking forward because I think whatever happens, itâll gimme clarity. I think itâll gimme clarity of where this is going to go and I can be prepared. But, you know, we have been prepped and prepared for all eventualities.
We hope it goes my way, but fundamentally, I donât know.
JW: Is there anything giving you hope right now?
MT: I think for me, what kind of keeps me going is that Iâm going through this right now. The sacrifices that I have to make, my future looks uncertain. But you know, if I have to leave the country, it would be back to the U.K.
I know the weatherâs terrible and I know your listeners probably donât like beans and toast either, but I think it wouldnât be the worst thing in the world going back to the U.K. And I think about what the Palestinians have endured for 76 years and more, what Iâm going through going through pales in comparison â pales in comparison.
Fundamentally, when I look at the Palestinians who have not given up on their own liberation and freedom, then Iâm just happy to be somewhat a part of the conversation.
JW: You have a lot of people tuned in listening to your voice, listening to your voice on this podcast. Is there anything that you want to share?
MT: Yeah, I want to say that this level of repression is not from a position of strength. I know itâs tough to say that because they are powerful. You know, they have an almost an unlimited amount of resources and weâre limited in what we can do. But I donât think this should be the time we keep quiet.
I think what clearly has been thrown in this moment, is that the ideological battle which supports Zionism is losing, right? You donât repress to this level when you are in a position of strength. When you have to quell speech, it means that you are realizing that the outside world or the public opinion is swaying in one direction.
So I think now would not be the time to kind of be afraid. And I know itâs a very frightening moment, but for me, this is the time to double down. This is the time to continue, and this is the time to escalate for Palestine.
JW: Thank you. Itâs a very powerful closing message. And thank you so much for joining me on the Intercept Briefing.
MT: Thank you for having me.
JW: And thank you for listening. We want to hear from you. What do you want to see more coverage of? Are you taking political action in your community? Are there organizing efforts in your community you want to shout out? Shoot us an email at podcast@theintercept.com or leave us a voicemail at (530) POD-CAST. Thatâs (530)763-2278.
This episode was produced by Laura Flynn. Sumi Aggarwal is our executive producer. Ben Muessig is our editor-in-chief. Chelsey Coombs is our social and video producer. Fei Liu is our product and design manager. Nara Shin is our copy editor. Legal review by David Bralow and Shawn Musgrave.
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Until next time, Iâm Jessica Washington.
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